Subject: [IKD] Catch 22 +
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:05:45 +0000
From: yda@iucn.unon.org (yda)
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
This is in reponse to Dr. Gorzula's statement on indigeneous
knowledge and its market value.
Though I support the statement, I seem to understand it also means
that if indigenous people were paid the dollar's worth of the knowledge
they have, they would change and there wouldn't be any more indigenous
knowledge.
I am afraid we would be patronizing if we appear to know
and be protective about indigenous knowledge without the
consultation of the person who owns it. Can we, as "concerned"
individuals or groups really decide for someone on how he or she
decides to use revenues which have already reached his/her pocket?
I do believe in building positive influences in the course of
development. But it is also necessary that we be on guard for our
thinking and action can produce manipulation of peoples and
primitivism in cultures.
We are dealing with two issues here. One is whether or not indigenous
people should be paid the full amount of their knowledge. The other
side is what if they follow the market economy like the rest of the
world and lose all their valuable knowledge.
I believe it is better that indigenous people be paid in full amount
for what they own and are offering rather than not get anything out
of it. Think about the amount of knowledge they have provided without
even being acknowledged for it. I would be very careful with the
second issue, since it raises certain human rights issues including
how we view other people.
Dear IKD members,
My name is Yilma Dellelegn Abebe (Mr.). I work for the Eastern Africa
Regional Office of the IUCN. I work as Programme Officer for
Wetlands.
e-mail = yilma.abebe@iucn.unon.org
Yilma Dellelegn Abebe
IUCN-EARO
Wetlands Programme Officer
P.O. Box 68200
NAIROBI, KENYA
Tel: (254-2) 890605-12
Fax: (254-2) 890515
Email: yda@iucn.unon.org
Subject: [IKD] ICTs, Poverty and Enterprise
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:53:52 BST
From: "Richard Heeks" <mzdrbhs@mail1.mcc.ac.uk>
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
Organization: Manchester University and UMIST
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
I think ICTs relate to development and to poverty alleviation
principally through their relationship with enterprise. I can see
four main potential direct roles of ICTs in this relationship:
-- As an output/As a production technology. Enterprises that
themselves produce ICTs (such as makers of computers, networks, and
ICT components); enterprises that inherently require ICTs to produce
their output (such as software producers or Web designers); and
enterprises with other heavily information-based outputs (such as
general designers or publishers) all form part of a nation's
'information economy'. They will become increasingly vital to
developing countries, and represent a beneficial application of ICTs
in terms of income, skill and export generation. However, these
areas will remain the domain of either large or highly-skilled,
capital-intensive enterprises. They will thus remain at one step
removed from 'mainstream' poverty alleviation, and rely on the
somewhat dubious trickle-down effect.
-- As an information processing technology. All enterprises need to
process the information that arises from both inside and outside the
enterprise. However, the processing requirement of most small/micro
enterprises is very limited, and typically capable of solution by
paper-based methods. Also, given the relatively high ICT costs and
low labour costs in developing countries, ICTs have a tendency to
raise rather than lower processing costs. This role, too, is
therefore of questionable value in poverty alleviation strategies.
-- As a communication technology. Small enterprises do have a
significant need for both receipt and provision of information. Add
in the fact that ICTs normally lower communication costs
substantially, and this can be seen as the main potential area for ICT
application for DC small enterprises. In terms of the two roles: the
poor entrepreneur as receiver of ICT-borne information, and poor
entrepreneur as provider of ICT-borne information, the latter seems to
have had greater impact. Put another way, ICTs have been of more
value in giving the poor 'voice' (e.g. helping with marketing) than in
giving the poor 'ears' (e.g. supplying externally-generated data).
Richard Heeks
IDPM, University of Manchester, UK
Subject: [IKD] Re: Catch 22 +
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:20:01 GMT+0100
From: "SACHIKO NISHIOKA" <els9812@iss.nl>
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
Organization: Institute of Social Studies
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
hello,
this is the first time to contribute.. my name is sachi from japan,
i am a master course student in Institute of Social Studies in the
Netherlands, my major is Employment and labour studies which
also deal with "human resource development".
I just wanted to say, losing your indigenous knowledge itself is
crucial..yes. but what is more crucial is whether people are aware
that they are losing it or not. this awareness really matters.
because the awareness is the source of energy to raise any action.
when people are not aware, the knowledge they used to have will
be just evaporating.
*********************************
Sachiko Nishioka
Dorus Rijkersplein 162
2518DG, The Hague
The Netherlands
e-mail: els9812@is.nl
Tel : +31-(0)70-4260460 (ext.849)
Fax : +31-(0)70-4260799 (ISS)
e-mail : ELS9812@ISS.NL
*********************************
Subject: [IKD] Re: Indigenous Knowledge
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:02:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Durval Olivieri <olivieri@seplantec.ba.gov.br>
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
Greetings, my friends.
In trying to qualify some of my previous remarks about indigenous
knowledge, I would like to come back to stress how important it is to
foster protection of indigenous knowledge and cultures from possible
malevolent influence of the comercial world.
The argument that indigenous knowledge, to become marketeable, requires the
coming in of exogenous capacity, does not imply in our obligation to
approve the alteration "in situ" of the indigenous knowledge and culture.
The contrary should prevail. Besides, the argument tries to protect
indigenous knowledge users from having to pay royalties to those who have
made the development.
I had no intention to give an idea that the indigenous knowledge lacks
importance, as such.
I would like to go back to some discussions held about the attractiveness
principle by which indigenous, or local environmental assets, can disappear
justly because of the good quality of the culture or envionment.
I do agree that indigenous knowledge is linked to cultural and other local
values. There is another issue that comes about the comercial use of
biodiversity also. That is improtant and somewaht linked to indigenous
knowledge and it will certainly be the economic plus of keeping tropical
rainforests and other diversified ecosystems.
In spite that I am a believer in the development of mankind through
technology I tend to think that certain indigenous customs have shown much
more respect to natural resilience than have we the occidental civilization.
I hope to have been of help. Thanks, Durval Olivieri, Bahia, Brazil.
Subject: [IKD] Re: Yilma Dellelegn Abebe's response to Catch 22 +
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:03:51 -0500 (EST)
From: sgorzula@pshdp.wlink.com.np (Stefan Gorzula)
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
There are two options:
1) Let development proceed and lose a lot, if not most, of their culture
and indigenous knowledge.
2) Deny the indigenous peoples their human rights and keep them in
"protected areas" so that we can study them.
Stefan Gorzula
sgorzula@pshdp.wlink.com.np
Subject: [IKD] Catch 22+
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:21:10 +0000
From: yda@iucn.unon.org (yda)
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
I am responding to Dr. Gorzula's two options on indigenous people
and development.
I tend to disagree with both options. Both options take extreme
sides. There would be those groups which side and support these
options. Clearly, these would be termed extremists if not
fundamentalists. What we need would be a middle-line which would
integrate pure development aspirations to pure indigenous people
preservation. All development is not useful nor all indigenous
knowledge applicable. A trade-off from both sides is worth the effort
for all of us concerned in providing protection to the owners of IK.
Perhaps what would be necessary at this stage to know:
1. Development which is not supportive (in fact destructive)
of any kind of indigenous knowledge system.
2. Development which is acceptable to the ideals of indigenous
knowledge and can be integrated easily.
Yilma Dellelegn
Yilma Dellelegn Abebe
IUCN-EARO
Wetlands Programme Officer
P.O. Box 68200
NAIROBI, KENYA
Tel: (254-2) 890605-12
Fax: (254-2) 890515
Email: yda@iucn.unon.org
Subject: [IKD] Views on Sachi's Catch 22 + Awareness
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:59:28 +0000
From: yda@iucn.unon.org (yda)
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
This is in response to Sachi's views on indigenous knowledge and
awareness.
I fully support Sachi's concern that the absence of awareness in the
whole arena of IK is detrimental. But what if we have all the
awareness. How positive can we be so that it can lead us to action?
Action is something practical which we take on with governments,
various institutions and indigenous peoples on the ground. I say that
awareness will lead to action but can also lead to frustration. Frustration
is that attitude which is brought about by inaction which comes about as a
result of knowing something but but being unable to do anything constructive
about it. I believe that the way forward is to be satisfied with
spurts of progress now and then.
It would also be useful to know whether this awareness is restricted
to the workers of IK (those individuals/groups proactive and willing
to work for the rights of IK owners) or IK owners themselves.
I have my own fear that eventually through all innocence or vice,
indigenous people will lose most of their knowledge by the swamping
effect of the exogenous type of knowledge. If this is awareness, how
can development equip indigenous people with the ability to protect
what is their own. As an example, can the integration of development
with IK be in terms of documentation and passing on this knowledge
system? This is the least that I would expect from modern development
in terms of providing technology to pass on IK.
Thanks
Yilma
seen in terms of documenta
Yilma Dellelegn Abebe
IUCN-EARO
Wetlands Programme Officer
P.O. Box 68200
NAIROBI, KENYA
Tel: (254-2) 890605-12
Fax: (254-2) 890515
Email: yda@iucn.unon.org
Subject: [IKD] ICTs and Knowledge
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:13:52 -0500
From: bfillip@juno.com
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
In a recent document on knowledge management, the World Bank identifies a
number of special challenges for managing knowledge for development
assistance, including the following.
- Fostering north-north knowledge flows
- Fostering north-south knowledge flows
- Fostering south-south knowledge flows
- Fostering south-north knowledge flows.
I would argue that the last two are those needing the most attention at
this point. In the context of the huge impact (whether positive or
negative) that ICTs are having (and will continue to have) on developing
countries, I am most interested in looking at how ICTs can be used to
foster south-south and south-north knowledge flows. To what extent are
discussion groups such as this one fostering south-south and south-north
knowledge flows? I believe one of the contributors to the list already
noted that the majority of contributions came from the "north".
Are most of the initiatives undertaken by the donor community (bilateral
agencies and multilateral agencies) in terms of the diffusion of ICTs
primarily geared to fostering north-north and north-south flows or
south-south and south-north flows? To what extent can NGOs (northern and
southern) facilitate the south-north and south-south flows of knowledge?
Any thoughts?
Barbara Fillip, Ph.D.
Consultant/Researcher
808 S. Veitch St.
Arlington, VA 22204
bfillip@juno.com
Subject: Society for Ecological Restoration Session
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:20:45 -0800
From: Earle Cummings <earlec@water.ca.gov>
To: indknow@u.washington.edu, anthap3@oakland.edu
Listserver readers may be interested in the following session of the
Society for Ecological Restoration Conference in San Francisco:
Traditional Ecological Knowledge
Co-chair: David Self, Zentner and Zentner
530.676.1054; dself@jps.net
Co-chair: Susan Maxwell
530.676.1054; dself@jps.net
Traditional Ecological Knowledge (TEK) is a shorthand for the ecologically
oriented facets of whole biodiversity-based cultures. In these cultures
the careful tending and use of a wide variety of native plants and animals
for food, medicine and materials is intimately linked and inseparable from
functional and often beautiful craft, stories, song, celebration,
respectful attitudes, and spiritual beliefs. And this 'whole' reinforces
the careful, long-term tending, use and management of the broad landscape
with attention to all habitats and the perpetuation of many, many species.
Further, the ecological knowledge is widely shared and is learned from an
early age, with 'hands-on' involvement that reinforces the skills,
knowledge and attitudes of respectful use and sustainability. In contrast,
with modern occidental land management the decision making and knowledge
are commonly held by relatively few narrowly focused professionals. And
the 'ecological' training of these professionals is typically only a small
part of a mere 4-6 years of college that largely ignores related
disciplines, and that often includes no exposure to the rich land care
traditions and conservation knowledge of other cultures. The resulting
simplistic management is then carried out by a tiny handful of people to
maximize one or a few 'products' or 'values', often to considerable
detriment of other species, habitats, ecological functions and traditional
cultures. At the same time, most of the 'new neighbors' remain (even after
several centuries) largely ignorant of the flawed rationale and damaging
consequences of such narrowly focused management - they know of no
alternatives, and they devalue the ecological knowledge, skills and
management practices of those displaced cultures that often practiced or
approached sustainability and conservation of natural diversity (including
genetic diversity of crop plants and their wild relatives.
At SER'99 our TEK sessions will focus on these contrasting 'native' and
occidental approaches: to 'land use', to knowledge and education, to
community involvement, and to the roles of culture in sustaining
biodiversity and ecological functions. We'll explore models and projects
that combine restoration ecology and TEK. And we'll give particular
attention to the importance of traditional cultures as stewards of natural
diversity, to the survival of traditional cultures, to the potential for
eco-cultural restoration to help sustain and revive traditional cultures;
to TEK and traditional cultures as guides toward culturally enriching,
biodiversity conserving, and sustainable modes of ecological restoration
and land use / landcare; and to issues of environmental justice as they
relate to restoration. A number of TEK discussions will also be
inter-woven into 'science-focused' sessions on fire ecology, fisheries
restoration, education and other diverse topics. And we also plan to have a
few traditional craft, food and related demonstrations to enliven and
deepen the event.
More information is available at
http://208.147.33.8:80/ser99
Subject: Conference Announcement
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:02:05 -0400
From: Bret Diamond <bdiamond@ATHENS.NET>
Reply-To: Ecol/Env Anthropology <EANTH-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
To: EANTH-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:20:45 -0800
From: Earle Cummings <earlec@water.ca.gov>
To: indknow@u.washington.edu, anthap3@oakland.edu
Subject: Society for Ecological Restoration Session
Listserver readers may be interested in the following session of the
Society for Ecological Restoration Conference in San Francisco:
Traditional Ecological Knowledge
Co-chair: David Self, Zentner and Zentner
530.676.1054; dself@jps.net
Co-chair: Susan Maxwell
530.676.1054; dself@jps.net
Traditional Ecological Knowledge (TEK) is a shorthand for the ecologically
oriented facets of whole biodiversity-based cultures. In these cultures
the careful tending and use of a wide variety of native plants and animals
for food, medicine and materials is intimately linked and inseparable from
functional and often beautiful craft, stories, song, celebration,
respectful attitudes, and spiritual beliefs. And this 'whole' reinforces
the careful, long-term tending, use and management of the broad landscape
with attention to all habitats and the perpetuation of many, many species.
Further, the ecological knowledge is widely shared and is learned from an
early age, with 'hands-on' involvement that reinforces the skills,
knowledge and attitudes of respectful use and sustainability. In contrast,
with modern occidental land management the decision making and knowledge
are commonly held by relatively few narrowly focused professionals. And
the 'ecological' training of these professionals is typically only a small
part of a mere 4-6 years of college that largely ignores related
disciplines, and that often includes no exposure to the rich land care
traditions and conservation knowledge of other cultures. The resulting
simplistic management is then carried out by a tiny handful of people to
maximize one or a few 'products' or 'values', often to considerable
detriment of other species, habitats, ecological functions and traditional
cultures. At the same time, most of the 'new neighbors' remain (even after
several centuries) largely ignorant of the flawed rationale and damaging
consequences of such narrowly focused management - they know of no
alternatives, and they devalue the ecological knowledge, skills and
management practices of those displaced cultures that often practiced or
approached sustainability and conservation of natural diversity (including
genetic diversity of crop plants and their wild relatives.
At SER'99 our TEK sessions will focus on these contrasting 'native' and
occidental approaches: to 'land use', to knowledge and education, to
community involvement, and to the roles of culture in sustaining
biodiversity and ecological functions. We'll explore models and projects
that combine restoration ecology and TEK. And we'll give particular
attention to the importance of traditional cultures as stewards of natural
diversity, to the survival of traditional cultures, to the potential for
eco-cultural restoration to help sustain and revive traditional cultures;
to TEK and traditional cultures as guides toward culturally enriching,
biodiversity conserving, and sustainable modes of ecological restoration
and land use / landcare; and to issues of environmental justice as they
relate to restoration. A number of TEK discussions will also be
inter-woven into 'science-focused' sessions on fire ecology, fisheries
restoration, education and other diverse topics. And we also plan to
have a
few traditional craft, food and related demonstrations to enliven and
deepen the event.
More information is available at
http://208.147.33.8:80/ser99
Subject: [IKD] Modern "western knowledge " and indigenous knowledge
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:03:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Shantanu Dutta <wvindnz@del6.vsnl.net.in>
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
I write from India. In the 60s and the 70s when I was a school boy ,and our
educational system fashioned to foster the scientific temper, it was
fashionable to disdain indigenous knowledge because often they could not be
proved emperically and was therefore considered unscientific if not
outright superstitious.How times have changed! Our government is now
involved in several legal battles to protect intellectual property rights
over traditional knowledge which skillful enterprenaurs are attempting to
refine and then patent for commercial exploitation. This is most visible in
the area of herbal medicine where the active ingredients in many medicinal
plants are being synthesised and then commercially produced. Many of these
same herbal therapies were dismissed as nothing more than old wives tales
barely a generation ago.It is good that the age of giving due recognition
to traditional knowledge and practice has arrived even if fueled by crass
commercialism.
Shantanu Dutta
wvindnz@del6.vsnl.net.in
Subject: [IKD] Re: Yilma Dellelegn Abebe's response to Catch 22 +
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:04:58 -0500 (EST)
From: P J Dixon <P.J.Dixon@durham.ac.uk>
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
Surely there are more options than those Gorzula gives below. Here is one
additional one:
Knowledge derived from cultures other than our own creates
new knowledge through combination with knowledge we already have. The same
applies in the opposite direction of course.
Knowledge may be reified, but knowledge and its use is dynamic, and it is
so because of humans.
As Marx said (and I put the stress on the first part of the quotation)
'People make their own history, though not under conditions of their own
choosing.' Structure is not omnipotent; agency is eqaully
important. Western (American) culture, and English as language, may appear
as dominant (and are important as part of the 'external environment'
within which others function), but others (as individuals or groups) can
choose to use/misuse/abuse/refuse these as they like. 'Alternative'
lifestyles, new cultures and so on are continually being created, as is
new knowledge - by humans with (independent) minds.
As Liebnitz said 'There is nothing in the mind which was not previously
in the senses, save the mind itself.
P.J. Dixon
p.j.dixon@durham.ac.uk
Subject: [IKD] Another option!
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:06:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Zane Ma Rhea <z.marhea@cshe.unimelb.edu.au>
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
In response to Gorzula...
there are always many more than two options and at least one other would
recognise the resilience of human capacity for cultural differentiation.
Many many people in different localities practice adaptive balancing
between local and global ways of doing things every day of their lives, are
doing things differently all the time and are neither completely caged nor
completely free in terms of their multiple subject positions.
i have often wondered if 'postmodernism' in western worldview is a
'western' response to an illusionary loss of certainty that many peoples
lost during the period of territorial colonisation????? As an extension of
this, i also wonder if the discussion could focus on the idea of dominant
and subjugated knowledges around the world, then the binary divide between
'us' and 'them' collapses and 'local'/Indigenous knowledges can also escape
the same imposed divisions??
regards
zane
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Zane Ma Rhea
Research Fellow
Centre for the Study of Higher Education
University of Melbourne
Parkville 3052 Victoria Australia
Phone: +61 3 93447577
Facsimile: +61 3 9344 7576
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: [IKD] haves and have-nots
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:12:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Gerard Berndt <mberndt@indiana.edu>
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: IKD@jazz.worldbank.org
I am responding to this list as a prospective student of
traditional healers in West Africa, who feels keenly the dilemna involved
in the idea of preserving knowledge for future generations against the
backdrop of the longstanding exploitation of the African continent.
The central issue with who has the access to information
technology is the question of who has the right to use, or protect the
knowlege(s) being transferred thereon. If our humanitarian efforts
succeed in wiring up significant leaders among our poorer comrades, only
for them to become aware of their abject powerlessness in the global
economy, then I'm sure that we, too, will have missed the boat (to human
rights for all).
I think a central problem with IPR is the need for a separate standard
for social patents. The fixed nature of a copywright or
patent nullifies the runners-up and coholders of traditional wisdom(s) and
techniques. Since every copywright dispute has the potential for legal
retribution, simply leave the decisionmaking up to the courts, as to who
may be added or deleted from ownership rights. This would likely require
separate court departments, which could be national, (or international,
should the efficacy of the prototype be proven, allowing for the joint
ownership for an entire ethnic group across sovereign frontiers) or local.
In the end, these formal, shared patents could combine public and private
entities in mutually beneficial arrangements, subject to reconfiguration
by the most suitable judicial entity to take of this proactive approach.
A certain benefit that might be gained from such an approach would
be in its application to the production of weapons of mass destruction.
By denying the patent rights to such technology to any organization with
the potential to use it, an international tribunal could allow the process
which began in Iraq to become a world cleansing phenomenon, with the
eventual review and censure of the U.S. for the remaining duration of its
production of land mines, nuclear warheads, and any other biological or
psychological time bombs. I think that the destruction of large numbers
of people in war-torn countries is the surest way to obliterate their
unique perspectives and knowledges.
It is only in the linking of the economic and political machinery
in a people and place-friendly fashion that we can expect real equity in
"development" situations. The information transferred is always
rightfully considered with regard to the information withheld.
Truly Yours, Michael Berndt
Bioanthropology
Indiana University
mberndt@indiana.edu
Subject: [IKD] Re: ICTs and Knowledge
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:15:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Reid Harvey <ceramics@AfricaOnline.Co.Ci>
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
I am having problems with Barbara Fillip's assertions, that the most
attention should be given to that knowledge flow that is south-south and
south-north. Just what fields of knowledge are we talking about? Can we get
some examples? I can address my own area of expertise, ceramic and high
temperature processes, and have no doubt that knowledge flow that is
north-south and north-north is urgently needed. The north-north flow is
needed in creating an awareness, among northern developers (ie. where the
money is), in order to initiate a kind of technology transfer, north-south
that has never really been started.
Again, it is the high temperature processes which are at the starting point
of nearly all industry, and it is the fostering of skills for micro-projects
that will eventually bring about grassroots industrial development. With
adequate attention to social factors, I believe this may be the only
approach
to development that is guaranteed. Yet within the vast libraries of the
north
(in English) there are precious few books wherein the technology has been
rendered appropriate. GTZ-GATE has a series on ceramics, and Lindsay
publications, Illinois, U.S.A., has a series on building a machine shop from
scrap. These comprise eleven, small books, each chapter of which invites
additional volumes on south to south knowledge flow.
It is both true and regrettable that the north has had a near monopoly on
the
knowledge, needed in manufacturing, that has helped in creating its vast
wealth. Yes, participants in this discussion are primarily northerners. My
arguments have steered clear of social factors in providing answers, that is
not my expertise, so to be consistant I will give two reasons in physical
science why the wealth has been concentrated in the north. The first is that
the north is frigid. Each year there are a number of days where the
thermometer dips below negative fifteen celsius, killing innumerable,
disease
carrying micro-organisms. Developing an infrastructure in the south has been
difficult.
The second reason explains, in part, why the U.S. has been an industrial
powerhouse. North America is the only place in the world where minerals are
consistant over long distances. The clay or the feldspar found in a
particular spot is probably the same as the clay and feldspar found half a
kilometer away. As a result, the high temperature industries, that fabricate
the capital products used in other industries, have been able to by-pass
numerous steps needed in material processing.
I would not be so simplistic as to imagine that these reasons in science are
of paramount importance. For example, there are numerous social factors that
have held certain people in the north behind, preventing them from
benefitting from the disease inhibitting cold. But to move forward we need
to
look at as many of our historical reasons as possible, both social and
non-social, and find ways of getting the capacity to create wealth from the
north to the south. We still very much need to get information flow from
north to south, but we cannot begin making that happen until, in forums like
this one, we create an awareness, north to north.
For better or worse, people in the south have chosen to emmulate those in
the
north, and quite obviously we need to highlight and preserve the many
examples of indigenous knowledge. But we should not forget about
technologies
that will help bring about an understanding of the resources of the south;
resources and knowledge that have all too often been neglected and
over-ridden in the course of history. (Economic shocks have also inhibitted
the fostering of indigenous knowledge!) Under the circumstances, to neglect
the appropriate, north-south knowledge flow would be a serious ommission. In
their aspirations to emmulate the capacity of people of the north to create
wealth, people of the south should not be cut off at the knees.
Reid Harvey (ceramics@africaonline.co.ci)
Abidjan, la Cote d'Ivoire
P.S. I will be traveling for a week or so, away from all computers. After
returning I will look forward to continuing to follow the discussion.
Subject: [IKD] Strategic website (Information overload)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:17:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Watkins <cwatkins@rad.net.id>
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
Regarding oversupply and the internet, I see two key problems:
- Looking for information is hard. There's so much information to
sift
through. (It'd be nice if someone had done some initial sifting for
you).
- There may be some information out there which would make a huge
difference to you... but if you've never heard of the concept, you won't
know where to look.
Regarding undersupply of information, the key issue is that most people
don't have access to the internet, nor the language to understand most
of it. Two key responses to this are:
- improve internet access for everyone... but this could take a few
decades! And we'll need to teach them all English, or wait for accurate
translation programs...
- ensure information reaches strategic people, in a form that they
can
use and pass on to others. (E.g. write in basic English, which is easier
to understand and translate). Less than ideal, but the most effective
strategy I can think of.
I have an idea for a website that will hopefully achieve something
practical to address these issues. If it strikes a chord with anyone,
I'd love to hear from you. (It's a lot of work, so any contributions
will be appreciated - and acknowledged.)
Personal perspective: Something I'd like to do personally is to try to
empower those who are able to make a difference now and in the future...
whether activists, WB employees, politicians, bureaucrats, or school
students.
My idea is to have a website aiming to serve anyone interested in
humanitarian issues, development issues etc. Having done a lot of wading
through the internet, I believe I can make it a bit easier for other
people. It would be a little bit like the Yahoo! directory in structure,
but more focused. It would also have some very concise commentary on the
websites, concise information on the topics concerned, and relevant,
provocative quotes.
The site is to be written in basic English, so people with a basic grasp
of English can use the site. And, if any material needs to be translated
it will be easier working with basic English. (Having other major
languages would be ideal - I might be able to organize Indonesian later,
but will need help for other languages). Thanks to Chris Green for
insights on this, when we met in Jakarta recently. Obviously most of the
links will not be useful to non-English speakers, but there should be
enough other information to make it worthwhile. Also, for those with a
basic grasp of English it's all the more important to find a good site
first off, so they only struggle through one good, relevant site rather
than many inappropriate sites.
Note that this is not intended to be "the answer" the world's problems
but simply a useful tool.
The following gives an idea of the internet-resource-guide aspect of the
site. This was posted to a microenterprise list, and I'm planning to use
it for the website (after I contact the contributor):
------
Microfinance Resources on the Internet:
http://www.enterweb.org/ - ENTERWeb is about the closest to a single
source on the topic with lots of online documents rated for content
http://www.soc.titech.ac.jp/icm/icm.html - Virtual Library on
Microcredit; another 'single source' site with plenty of links to
real content, obviously with a credit emphasis
http://www.mip.org/ - Microenterprise Innovation Project; a lot of
clear, analytical documents with straightforward recommendations from
USAID practice in the field
http://www.worldbank.org/html/cgap/cgap.html - Consultative Group to
Assist the Poorest; useful short notes and papers
(contributor: Dr Richard Heeks, Institute for Development Policy &
Management, University of Manchester)
------
I hope to have the website running in a month or so. In a couple of
months, if you want to check out the site, then go to a good search
engine (e.g. www.dogpile.com - excuse the name!) and type: "The
Humanitarian's Guide to the internet and other resources"
Just for some personal background, it was while finishing my Masters in
Water Engineering that I realised how much water and sanitation is a
political problem rather than a technological one. Since then I've been
trying to get a grip on broad issues of development, and have been
sifting through a lot of stuff (good stuff and junk) on the net. The
broad perspective I have gained may be of some help to others in the
form of a website.
Looking forward to feedback. If it's not relevant to the IKD discussion,
just send it to my address - <cwatkins@rad.net.id>
And if anyone has ideas for sponsorship, that would be a plus.
Thanks in advance.
Chris Watkins (cwatkins@rad.net.id)
Surabaya, Indonesia
"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far
one can go." - T.S. Eliot
Subject: RE: Best practices related to ikd
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:12:37 +0200
From: "Marrewijk, Anna van" <ikdm@nuffic.nl>
To: "'erukangira@iconnect.co.ke'" <erukangira@iconnect.co.ke>
Dear Ernest
I hope this message reaches you in time before you leave. Thank you for your
informative answer. I understand the double purpose of pricing and I would
really hope your organization receives sufficient funds to continue its
work. Your suggestion not to mention the price might be a good one: people
from the North eager to obtain a copy will then find out themselves what the
price would be. I trust that other people interested in obtaining a copy
would then receive theirs at a reduced price. But that is up to you to
decide.
I look forward to receive your contribution and I will reserve space in the
Juoy issue 1999 to publish the information.
Sincerely yours,
have a nice time abroad,
Anna
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Ernest Rukangira [SMTP:erukangira@iconnect.co.ke]
> Verzonden: vrijdag 26 maart 1999 16:41
> Aan: Marrewijk, Anna van
> Onderwerp: Re: Best practices related to ikd
>
> Dear Anna,
>
>
Subject: [IKD] Re: Introduction to Week 5
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:15:21 +0300
From: Rob Sinclair <rsinclair@iconnect.co.ke>
To: erukangira@iconnect.co.ke
>Return-path: <owner-ikd@jazz.worldbank.org>
>Envelope-to: rsinclair@iconnect.co.ke
>Delivery-date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 02:09:02 +0300
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:25:25 -0500 (EST)
>X-Authentication-Warning: jazz.worldbank.org: majordom set sender to
owner-wdr1998@jazz.worldbank.org using -f
>From: "Angela C. de Siqueira" <acs4085@garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
>To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
>Subject: [IKD] Re: Introduction to Week 5
>Sender: owner-wdr1998@jazz.worldbank.org
>Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
>
>" Most Indigenous knowledge does not meet conventional patenting
>requirements: ownership by a legal entity, novelty, and originality, so it
>is difficult to protect under existing conventions."
>
>Who established the named "conventional patenting requirements"? who
>benefits from them? In fact all knowledge is a collective and historical
>production. No one creates knowledge from nothing... The basis of all
>knowledge is some other knowledge produced by generations, even if used
>to neglect it.
>
>Imagine if all previous knowledge was patented; that is, transformed in
>private property of a few? How knowledge production, transformation and
>re-criation would be limited if for instance the newtonian physics was a
>property of a few? Or if all seeds and way of food production becomes
>property of a few? Everyone will be dependent of these few...
>
>Indigenous knowledge carries novelty and originality; what they do not have
>is ownership by a legal entity, because they are seem as "humanity
>knowledge"; that is for the benefit of all. It is not a private property or
>a secret that one must buy; you can have your own "pharmacy" on your
>backyard or in a collective plantation. However, this does not bring
profits
>for multinational corporations that want to sell their products, by
creating
>new markets; even destroying and appropriating of indigenous knowledge.
>
>If you go to poor and developing countries there is plenty use of herbs.
>Many of them never studied in labs, but has been proven efficient to cure
by
>the use of generations. Isn't this knowledge? Why to be said that something
>is efficient or exists one has to measure it, count and make lab tests?
This
>is only the western way; but this not imply and cannot give authority to
say
>that any other form of ancient use is not useful, right, valuable, or even
>that it does not exist because there is no "scientific evidence", according
>to western understanding.
>
>This is the true way by which indigenous knowledge is being stolen and
>appropriated: by denying its supposed lack of "scientific evidence".
>Thus, those who created the "patents requirement", have the money and
>technicians to make tests in lab proving the existence of some special
>substance that indegenous people always used, without knowing or applying
>a name for it, become property of a colletive knowledge!
>
>However, they are only giving scientic names and classifying; not
>discovering the use or the application of substances... Is this novelty and
>originality? It is useful to remember that advertisment and industries
are
>very used to make up some products changing its size, color, shape, etc
>to sell old things as new ones....They try to deny that there was previous
>generational knowledge about the effect of such plants and that this
>knowledge is a collective and generational patrimony; it does not have a
>private owner and should not have. It is for public domain and well-being
>of humanity.
>
>There lot of things we use to cook that are seen as home medicine, besides
>fruits, plants and even some animals and minerals. The homeophatic medicine
>is a good example of this use; however, it was very depreciated by most of
>medicine schools. The millenar acunpunture was also denied as medicine by
>western medicine... Sure there was pressure from multinational firms to ban
>and forbidden these practices, and the best way was not to teach and even
>deny these subjects in medical courses.
>
>The best way to protect indigenous knowledge is to reinforce its
importance;
>not to deny it. This means that traditional knowledge should continue to be
>passed from generation trough generations.
>
>However, most of the "international aid" based on western way of life
>generally comes to destroy all local culture, values and knowledge,
bringing
>new "ideas" for education system (a kind of "international" "neutral"
>curriculum- that is completely distant from local reality; books, tests, tv
>programs, radio, etc).
>
>If one wants to write about indigenous knowledge spelling out the
>"scientific principles" one can do for curiosity; for classification, to
>better understand of the active principles, etc; but never to deny where
the
>knowledge comes from; all its ancient, traditional and generational usage;
>and moreover not to make a pillage over their natural, collective and great
>resources, reaping not only the knowledge but also their environment as a
>private property.
>
>Angela C. de Siqueira- acs4085@garnet.acns.fsu.edu
>
>
>
Subject: Re: [IKD] Strategic website (Information overload)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:47:50 +0700
From: Chris Watkins <cwatkins@rad.net.id>
Reply-To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
To: ikd@jazz.worldbank.org
Alice,
Some good ideas. You wrote:
> - Development of on-line reference dictionaries, glossaries and
> terminology banks to help translators to translate directly or to
> correct translation programs failures. These could include language
> dictionaries, and glossaries of scientific terminology and
> culture-specific concepts. If on-line searching were possible for words
> in both the terms and definitions part of the terminology banks, this
> might also help find concepts that one doesn't know how to express.
Do you (or anyone else) know good resources along these lines? (I'm
familiar with a good online Indonesian/English dictionary... which I'd
only use if my paper dictionary didn't have a particular word).
Regarding automatic translation programs, my impression is they're not
very good at this stage. I've read something translated from Spanish by
Altavista's online translator and it didn't make a lot of sense. I tried
translating something into German by Altavista and showed a
German-speaking friend... and she thought it was pretty poor - better
than nothing, but barely. Anyone know of better results?
> Users with basic mastery of a language will probably have similar
> difficulties with certain expressions and vocabulary as translation
> programs, and so adopting recommended practices for simplified texts
> would be useful even when texts aren't in fact going to be translated
> but are destined for use in their original language by non-native
> speakers of that language.
You've got me thinking. How about having a feature (written in
Java/Javascript) where you click on a phrase and an explanation pops up?
You'd have to do it in a way that doesn't annoy and confuse ordinary
readers, but I'm sure it's possible. A lot of extra work, but that will
often be the cost of trying to include people.
Chris
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